Not vulnerable, just ANGRY

Okay, so.

On another (non-creaky) message board, the conversation turned to the subject of universal health coverage. Some woman made the nose-in-the-air statement that she shouldn't be forced to pay for my "poor choices" when it comes to health care. She opined that every family should deal with their own health problems without government help, pay their own bills, etc., The kicker, and I quote, "Don't tell me that a parent's only option is to let their child suffer. That is so stupid as to be ridiculous."

I admit, I saw red. First of all, don't call me stupid. Second, I didn't make any poor choices to get sick. I was born. I asked her if she was implying I shouldn't have been born? (She's rabidly anti-choice, btw - uh huh, but that's another rant for another day)

Third, there are people out there right now that ARE having to make those choices. Whether to let themselves or a child suffer for lack of health coverage to pay for the newest, ground-breaking treatments. Whether to let themselves DIE rather than put their family into bankruptcy to pay for cancer treatment. I'm afraid I wasn't terribly ladylike in my response to her. (Yeah, imagine that? LOL)  I think my comment had something to do with pulling her head out of a deep, dark hole...

*sigh* I must be hormonal today or something.  Did I overreact? Should I I just stick a sock in my mouth and let (*cough*MORONS*cough) like this go unchallenged?

My Dad is also heartily against any kind of universal coverage, and we get into arguments about this all the time. It bothers my mom, but hey, he's an invalid, and he has to get his entertainment from somewhere - getting me riled up is good for him. LOL I remind him that he drank, ate, and smoked his way into his current state of health, and his veteran's status gives him better access to services than the average person. Guess who pays for that? My taxes. MY illness came on through no fault of my own, but I'm at risk for needless suffering if I lose my husband's coverage through his job. Who pays for me? No one, b/c no insurance company will touch me. Disability (if I can get it) is my only option.

[pant pant pant]

Whew. If I just channeled this word vomit into my books, I'd be a best seller! [grin]

Hey- I'll come back later on to type more but just want to chime in with an.. AARRGHH! how infuriating!

Yeah,  my family keeps arguing against heatlhcare too, Carolan.  They always ask, "Do you want to wait for your meds. in a long line?" 

I have to admit, I only need to take a look at how poorly run our educational system is to get scared about what a government-run healtchare system would look like.

But then I remind them, that I had to give up my home b/c my medical bills and meds. EQUALLED a mortgage each month.  Between the fact that I couldn't work, did not get disability, and Chris had to pay all the bills by himself, we just couldn't handle 1100/mo for meds and dr.s on top of a mortgage, a car (One is paid off) insuracne, etc...  It makes me so angry too, b/c I was told I have the BEST coverage possible in North Carolina.  I believe it only b/c we pay through out teeth to have it.  But if at the end of the month, I'm still shelling out 1100 bucks, then what is it good for?  (Look, now I'm so angry, I'm ending things with prepositions.)

Carolan - I'm not sure what the answer is.  I often think about how I DO have access to all the best meds., and I suffer this much, so waht does that mean for the elderly and the poor?  Healthcare is out of control.  Period.  I'm not sure I have the answer, but I agree with you that something needs to be done.  This disease is hard enough to handle on its own, without the added stress of the financial part. 

Hugs for all of us!

- Kati

Oh no! Not the dreaded ending-sentences-in-prepositions rant! [snicker]

*sigh*  I don't know what the answer is, either. But there has to be a middle ground somewhere between leaving things as they are, and a total "nanny state".

I remember meeting a young woman (30s) in the UK who desperately needed a knee replacement, but the gov't run health care system deemed her too young. Her choices were to wait until age 60, when she'd qualify (by which time she'd have long since been in a wheelchair) or have the knee fused straight (which would prevent her from having the knee replaced later). Can you imagine living like that?

There has to be a middle ground. Somewhere.

LOL - Yes, the preposition rant!

But OMGoodness, I still had our conversation on my mind, when I ran across this article this a.m.  Very Scarey.  And I have BC/BS myself.

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/34865/

Yep, my husband's employer is switching to BC/BS next year. We all have to submit to an alleged four-point health check (weight, BP, blood sugar, and something else - I think whether you smoke) that will determine what we pay in premiums. This is what ticks me off - I don't smoke, my weight, BP and blood sugar are healthy. But I have a disease that came about through no fault of my own. I'm a relatively expensive patient to maintain so that means we will probaby pay more. I may have to give up the Enbrel if they decide not to cover it. I was hoping to put off my last foot surgery until next year, but I'm thinking I'd better take care of it this year while I can afford it. Plus my hip is popping so I'd better get that checked out, too. Ugh.

I'm glad the people in Mississippi rallied and got fairer pricing - but $200 a month is still a big chunk of change for most people.

Yes, but I think the thing in Mississippi is a sign of things to come....God, I hope not, but my hubby and I were scared when we read that article.  When I first started Remicade, they chared it as a Dr.'s visit, $30 copay.  Now they charge me a $500 medicine copay, PLUS a $30 Dr. Visit charge. The thing that helped is that Remicade has a program for their patients.  They agreed to pay 400 of my copay, so we pay 130, which as you know, is still high.

I'll tell you this much.  We have the BC/BS PPO, instead of the HMO.  We pay more for it, but I think, like you mentioned, when you have a disease that is costly to manage, it is worth it to go for the better plan.

I didn't have to submit any kind of health history, but that is probably b/c Chris being a Vice Principal, he is considered a State Employee, and Gov't. workers are usually universally insured the same way; you just pick your plan. 

The other thing that has cost us a lot is that I've probably spent thousands on medicines that I took twice before I couldn't tolerate or didn't work.  Then you are stuck with this huge prescription that you can't return.  I wish there was a better system for free samples or something.

Good luck with the surgeries.  It is simply awful that we have to start treating ourselves based as much on expense as on what is effective and healthy.  It just isn't right.

Hey - I did discover something recently I hadn't posted yet.  I am usually a nasayer when it comes to natural treatments for RA.  I've tried most of them and found that RA just doesn't seem to respond to the "Natural cures or diet."  Research has mostly validated this, I think.  But I did see something about the positive effects of Vitamin D on RA.  I found out accidentally that there is something there.  I started tanning, just a little, for wardrobe reasons, and I HONESTLY started feeling better.  Chris and I both noticed in the past that I did flare less in the summer.  I think the key is that HEAT is a trigger for RA, but sun helps.  So you have to stay cool, but soak in some sun.  Does that make sense?

Anyway, I'm just passing this along for what its worth!

That article is scary.  I have BC/BS..., but I have been lucky so far.  I am not sure if government run, nationalized health care is the answer.  My husband lived in England for a few years, and did not come away with a very positive impression of the system.  (Long waits and lots of restrictions...not what we are used to). 

Honestly, the biggest areas of cost seem to be our out of control priced medications.  My Enbrel is a lifesaver, but really how can a few drops of liquid in one shot cost hundreds of dollars, and a yearly supply $24,000???!!!  If we could rake in some of this crazy obscene costs created by the money hungry, profit guzzling, commercial pushing big pharmaceutical companies, maybe the insurance companies would not be forced to push the burden of costs onto us.  URGH...(coming up for air)

oh man, I am in the process of interviewing for jobs and I am PANICKED that I'll end up in some situation like that, where I just can't afford meds. ah! this thread is scaring me.

It is scary! However it's good to know what's coming down the pike so we can be prepared to fight. The squeaky wheels will get the grease, as they say!

Ladies, I am not sure which way I would want the insurance to go for universal coverage based on what I have heard. All I do know that I also switched to my husbands insurance this year because even a company like IBM (my employer) changed their PPO plan and my prescriptions only were going up another 30.00 each per quarter and when your on 7 to 10 scripts that is enough in it's own. 

I just pulled together all the medical bills for this year's taxes and we spent 7200.00 out of pocket after insurance.  Too much out of pocket for one year!! 

They have to do something and maybe it is time for some of us to become Arthritis Advocates on the AF site where they need us to help in DC and voice our concerns.  Guess it is something I need to start thinking about!!! 

June can fill us in on more that goes on in the UK since she lives there.  Hey June any comments on the healthcare system in England?

Tess

Hey Guys,

I copied this out of my "RA Journal" I keep for my Drs.  This entry was from last month sometime. The scarey thing is BC/BS told us we had the best insurance you can purchase in NC.  Evidently, each state sets their own minimums b/c when we had BC/BS of Va, we had the same plan and it was a cheaper premium w/ cheaper copays. 

1 WEEK TOTALS:

Remicade: 200.00
MTX & Needles: 21.00
Dr. Copays: 60.00 (30 x 2)
Vicodin: 10.00
Prednisone: 10.00

Total Cost of RA for this week alone: 311.00

Hey,

I just saw this, and I had to post it here b/c it related so closely to this conversation, but also b/c it is so so sad.  The article basically says that the majority of R.A. patients are choosing to forego meds. b/c of cost, and that this is the first quarter that Anti-TNF drug companies have seen an decrease in their sales b/c of the economic downturn.  I'm summarizing a great deal, but if you have time, you should scan it.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10483722/1/ra-patients-choose-pain-over-poverty-survey.html?puc=_tscrss

- Kati

Kati,

Thanks for sharing the article it is quiet interesting.  I know that if i didnt have insurance i couldn't afford my meds and would have to stop. Not that they are working right now anyway. That's  another subject all together.

As a rheumatoid arthriric with NO health care right now, and a former emplloyee of BCBS (I worked for a plan that would pay 45 g's for a gastric bypass with ease but refuses their members access to a nutritionist or gym membership. Arthritics had to jump through hurdles to get their medicines approved, but a joint replacement? Easy!!)  I am TRULY frustrated. And to watch those holier than thou critics who don't begin to understand the position I'm in judging me for complaining about America's healthcare system??? I'm just as heated as you are Carolan. The state of NC would rather me sit on my butt than give me Medicaid because I make slightly more than $460/month. (single mom so I stay home with baby) So I guess that means I should be able to afford my own healthcare. (that wouldn't even pay half of my premium if BCBS didn't refuse me again) the would rather me sit around for months waiting for disability that I don't even want, but am being driven to because my joints are getting so bad( can't go to the dr. w/o insurance) that its difficult for me to carry my 10month old, cook, walk the dog...All of those things that I never imagined taking so long to do or being so painful are now meticulously scheduled into my day so that I can control the amounts of time I'm on my feet and periods of rest. Universal healthcare would improve my quality of life so much. I wish people could see that instead of judging and punishing those who need it. the truth about healthcare is that most people don't even use it. Most will need one or 2 well visits a year and thats it. Its not like every one under the sun is going to run out and get surgery and our taxes will be out of this world for it. Its a responsible way for a country to care for its citizens and to make sure that every one has the access they need for medical attention..

Previously Kati wrote:

Yeah,  my family keeps arguing against heatlhcare too, Carolan.  They always ask, "Do you want to wait for your meds. in a long line?" 

I have to admit, I only need to take a look at how poorly run our educational system is to get scared about what a government-run healtchare system would look like.

But then I remind them, that I had to give up my home b/c my medical bills and meds. EQUALLED a mortgage each month.  Between the fact that I couldn't work, did not get disability, and Chris had to pay all the bills by himself, we just couldn't handle 1100/mo for meds and dr.s on top of a mortgage, a car (One is paid off) insuracne, etc...  It makes me so angry too, b/c I was told I have the BEST coverage possible in North Carolina.  I believe it only b/c we pay through out teeth to have it.  But if at the end of the month, I'm still shelling out 1100 bucks, then what is it good for?  (Look, now I'm so angry, I'm ending things with prepositions.)

Carolan - I'm not sure what the answer is.  I often think about how I DO have access to all the best meds., and I suffer this much, so waht does that mean for the elderly and the poor?  Healthcare is out of control.  Period.  I'm not sure I have the answer, but I agree with you that something needs to be done.  This disease is hard enough to handle on its own, without the added stress of the financial part. 

 

Hugs for all of us!

- Kati

I also live in NC. Do you have BCBS or State Health Plan coverage? I worked for that plan.

Deidra, I hear you. My sister is a teacher in NC and rather than pay for her gastric bypass surgery (a technique laparoscopic technique that was deemed "exprimental"), they'd rather pay for the rest of her life for her various problems related to her weight - diabetes, high BP, etc. She had the surgery and 80 lbs. later is now cured of both and over her lifetime will save the state money. But will the state pay for the surgery? No.

Deidra,

Yes, I have BCBS!!!

Carolan,

I have a friend in NC that got that surgery.  She had the BCBS PPO like me though. She is a teacher also; we used to work together.  I wish your sister had talked to me first.  I would've told her to pay for the PPO this year!  I'm so glad to hear she's happy though.  She must be estatic.

- Kati

Thanks, Kati, she's doing great.   I don't know all the details, but I do know that the state would have paid if she'd opted for the traditional bypass (which cuts you open from stem to stern and has a higher mortality rate) or a lap-band. Her research led her to a proven technique that is not as invasive, has a lower mortality rate than traditional bypass, and a higher success rate than the lap band. She chose the best health option for her, and the state decided they know better than her health care providers. That's the main thing that chaps my butt.

First off we are not going to universal health care. Just a government option.

Second of all, people never consider the rumors that universal coverage is poor was started by the health insurance companies.

If you actually talk to people on UC, like I speak to many people in Europe, you will find that it is not bad like imagined. And they wouldn't trade spots with us, ever.

If it was so bad, why aren't there packs of British,French, and Norwegian immigrants?

AS far as for paying for other people, it benefits the community when everyone is covered. Do you really want a sick child going to school  with the other children? 

A well child does better in school and grows up to be a productive member of the community.

Also a lot of GDP is lost due to people who can't afford insurance and wait till they are really sick, and miss a lot of work, instead of seeking preventive treatment. So when you have preventive treatment for everyone, there is a lot less work missed over all.

Funny thing is that these people dont' realize that they are already paying for other peoples healthcare.

Guess what, you think insurance just gives a bid to a company and thats it? Oh, if you have older workers, it goes up. If there are a lot of children, it goes up. If you have chronic people, it goes up. They research the demographics and THEN give a bid. The only companies they actually go after are full of young, single, healthy people because they are cheaper. It is all considered when they present an amount to the agency you are working for.

So if you got a chronic coworker, that company knows it, and that may be why it raises it 25 bucks a month the next year.

Companies will also raise the price for everyone, if it means driving some out they don't want to cover. My mother works in the civil rights division, and it has been known to happen.

It is utter selfishness.

There is a direct correlation between health and education. Kids get better care, they do better in school. So do you really want all these unemployed families with sick kids be the next generation? To become their teachers, doctors or lawyers?

Do they really want that stranger without insurance coming in their office with the flu because they can't afford treatment?

Well if they don't like paying for other peoples care. Why don't we have to pay for our own ambulance services? Pay if firefighters put out their house. Pay the garbage by the can full.

BTW, they shouldnt' be able to receive medicaid at 65 while we are at it.

Funny how poeple like to pick and choose.